Psac-- I wanted to try to understand why it is that so many people believe in the Biblical Jesus (him being the Messiah) and yet very few in the absolute inerrancy of the book that contains the only historical documents, that I know of, giving an account of his miracles and resurrection. Especially when the accounts need to be excused as to things such as people like John, who got to the tomb first, not being mentioned.. But, some good points have been made. And I certainly accept that the disciples believed that they saw Jesus after he had died. By the way, how do you feel about the ending of Mark, verse 9 onwards, that was likely added on? And do you view the Gospels as seperate from the Bible canon as to being trustworthy, as in to be taken literally when other books are not? We'll forget the Mark 16:9 contradiction, I'm guessing that some would argue that only Mary was mentioned due to prominence, or that Mark's account ended abruptly for some reason..
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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The Quiet One
Psac-- The OP was a sincere question. Do you think that I have nothing better to do than attack Christianity? I genuinely didn't think of conflicting eyewitness accounts being more believable than identical ones, although I still don't understand how anyone can put faith in anything after they've been deceived before, but that's just me..
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The Quiet One
This is the main thing I can't explain away myself... The Matthew account describes the women (plural) meeting Jesus while heading away from the tomb and throwing THEMselves at his feet, which must have been directly after the first visit to the tomb according to the context, especially if you believe Mark's account because in Mark they were discussing who would roll the stone away, obviously on the 1st visit.. So John's account can't seem to be harmonised because it says that it was Mary's at least 2nd visit to the tomb, returning after telling the apostles, when Mary met Jesus.. And Matthew's account would have to be the second visit, to make sense of just Mary having met Jesus first, but it can't have been, because the women were on their way to tell the men what they'd seen, and also Mary would have known that the stone had already been moved away if it were a 2nd visit. The point is that the Mark account says that Mary Magdalene met the resurrected Jesus FIRST, not other women as mentioned in Matthew.. In my view, if you then try to claim that Mark 16:9 shouldn't be believed, that leaves you with another major problem.. Mark 16:8 says that the women told 'nobody anything', with no further qualifier to say that they only remained silent for a time or something, and that was how Mark chose to end his account? Seems to me that the end was tacked on to make the accounts look like they didn't contradict. The short conclusion I've read in the NWT seems too abrupt, it doesn't mention the women going to the apostles, they're just there.. No doubt I've missed something, though ;) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:9&version=NIV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028:1-11&version=NIV
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The Quiet One
N.drew-- So, just to make sure I understand.. You don't believe that the Bible should be trusted to guide you, but you trust the parts that tell you nice things about a loving God, ignoring anything you see that could contradict this as 'bad food'? Or does Yaheshua tell you which parts of the Bible are true and which parts were left in the Bible to confuse/mislead people? Thanks.
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The Quiet One
Mouthy -- Thanks for sharing that. I'm glad that you have a belief that helps you to keep going. I hope that your grandson learns to deal with his loss in time, and that your faith supports you in learning to live with yours..
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The Quiet One
N.drew-- Thanks for replying. I can't quite understand what you are trying to say in your first post, though. You said that you don't 'put faith in Jesus' and that you 'don't trust the Bible', and then you conclude your post by basically asking me: 'Who else but Jesus said the things that he was recorded as saying in the Bible'?... This seems contradictory. Ding-- You have given a clear and well thought out argument against eyewitnesses having to agree on even important details. The only problem is that nobody would fail to believe that a tornado had hit a certain place, even many years later when the bodies and damage had been cleared away, because a tornado is something that most people have seen (at least on tv), and that many have experienced, are experiencing now and will no doubt experience again in the future. Also, a persons supposed chance of living forever does not hinge on whether they put faith in a tornado happening somewhere a long time ago, based on conflicting eyewitness accounts.
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The Quiet One
I was just wondering how anyone can put faith in Jesus, a character in a book where even the only eyewitness accounts we have disagree with each other on these very important details.. "Who found the empty tomb? A. According to Matthew 28:1 , only "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary." B. According to Mark 16:1 , "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome." C. According to Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10, "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." Luke indicates in verse 24:10 that there were at least two others. D. According to John 20:1-4 , Mary Magdalene went to the tomb alone, saw the stone removed, ran to find Peter, and returned to the tomb with Peter and another disciple. 2. Who did they find at the tomb? A. According to Matthew 28:2-4 , an angel of the Lord with an appearance like lightning was sitting on the stone that had been rolled away. Also present were the guards that Pilate had contributed. On the way back from the tomb the women meet Jesus ( Matthew 28:9 ). B. According to Mark 16:5 , a young man in a white robe was sitting inside the tomb. C. According to Luke 24:4 , two men in dazzling apparel. It is not clear if the men were inside the tomb or outside of it. D. According to John 20:4-14 , Mary and Peter and the other disciple initially find just an empty tomb. Peter and the other disciple enter the tomb and find only the wrappings. Then Peter and the other disciple leave and Mary looks in the tomb to find two angels in white. After a short conversation with the angels, Mary turns around to find Jesus." http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_carlson/nt_contradictions.html
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The word "Armageddon" has been fading away from WT publications
by Alfred in1960s 1,095 times.
1970s 152 times(drastic drop after 1975).
1980s 438 times.
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The Quiet One
Well observed.. I agree with Designs, they even changed some of the songs for the new book so that the new songs wouldn't sound as 'evangelical' as the old ones, so it could be another way of distancing themselves from evangelicals.
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An asteroid on a collision course with EarthNews about NIBIRU
by lifechanyuan innasa, america's space agency, is being charged with leading the way to protect against an asteroid on a collision course with earth.. and a top white house science adviser says we have to be prepared for such a horrifying scenario.
in separate 10-page letters to the house committee on science and technology and the senate committee on commerce, science and transportation, john holdren, director of the white house office of science and technology policy, or ostp, outlines plans for,.
"(a) protecting the united states from a near-earth object that is expected to collide with earth; and (b) implementing a deflection campaign, in consultation with international bodies, should one be necessary.".
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The Quiet One
"As a review of the original 800 Values for New Era Human Being, the second edition of 800 Values for New Era Human Being has undergone revisions in a broad range, during which about three hundred entries have been deleted and about three hundred new entries have been added."-- New light? "In order to requite the grace of the Greatest Creator, repay Jesus Christ, Sakyamuni, Lao Tzu, the prophet Muhammad, and pay back the inculcation of all sages in human history, I request that everyone who has read (in whatever way) “800 Values for New Era Human Being” pay two dollars to Lifechanyuan. The payment is uniform all over the world. The two dollars serves as a test ofyour conscience. Just let your conscience decide your choice to pay or not to pay. You can pay the two dollars if you feel like doing so; you can choose not to pay if you don’t want to. No one will force you to pay. Lifechanyuan will not pass judgment on you. Lifechanyuan will not laud you if you pay, and will not make out receipt for you either. The charge of two dollars is purely a procedure specially designed for the evolution of life andLIFE. You may feel rejoiced at the profundity within if you can understand it, you may also take it as a game if you cannot understand it. If you are willing to pay, please look for the account numbers for payment or other channels of payment from the following four websites."-- There's a surprise, profund (sounds like a freudian slip, shouldn't that be profound?) enlightenment comes with a dollar figure attached.. http://lifechanyuan.org/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1320&extra=page%3D2